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Hey guys,
I appreciate the feedback and comments regarding the competition. I think your concerns are valid insomuch as you're all clearly interested in a fair competition; however, your examples aren't exactly similar to what we're doing here. You list sporting events, which are skill-based competitions, but are not evaluated by the audience or judges in order to determine the score. I think that's a critical difference (and probably the reason the Eagles are doing so bad this season!) Likewise, the "professional" wrestling analogy doesn't hold up since this is not staged whatsoever.

There is plenty of precedence for what we're doing here. To use some examples that are a bit more accurate I think you should look at things that are "evaluated" rather than just "won". For example, the Academy Awards. There are certain rules regarding nomination or inclusion into the competitions that are publicly known (for example, the date/in theater requirements) and other information that is undisclosed (like the names or even total number of voting academy judges). Similarly, did you know that the Miss America Pageant includes a private interview with the judges that is worth upwards of 25% of the contestants total score? This interview is not televised. Yeah, yeah...insert jokes now. I'll wait. :)

We don't think you're jackals and we're not ignoring you - this post should be testament to that. We thought long and hard about this competition and how to make it fair, balanced, effective and sustainable. We did plenty of research into the nature of competitions (versus, say...contests. Yes, they're different) and met with our lawyers to make sure that we weren't inadvertently setting up something that was unfair. Also - not that we expect or want this - but just in case theres ever a competition that is so close that the competitors feel cheated or slighted or disagree with the results in some way, all of the voting data is recorded and presentable.

Oh yeah, one last thing - speaking your mind and offering suggestions would never disqualify anyone's comic from being considered. We're not that mean!

It's a competition. it should be MORE than enough to see stated in print that the staff isn't swaying votes.
Eventually there's bound to be a competition that comes down to a razor thin vote count and at that point if a creator feels strongly enough that he was cheated then perhaps he'll file a lawsuit in an attempt to get an audit of the votes.
If for no reason other than that, I think this is going to be a very legitimate vote count every time. That kind of legal trouble, even the threat of it, is too compelling.
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In the meantime there is no reason for the fans to know the algorithm. There are very good reasons to keep it secret. No benefit to revealing it. It's the fans that aren't to be trusted.
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(It looks to me like the system is already being gamed. BFBS was consistently tied with DitN up until right after the first results were released. Either DitN fans ran out of friends to stuff the ballot box with, or BFBS suddenly found a few.)
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I advise you two to stop internalizing this decision as a slight against yourself. You two haven't been singled out as untrustworthy.

Thanks for the response, Ron. I appreciate the guarantee that there aren't "discretionary points." I assumed as much, but it's nice to have that clarity.


I still think you should make the point system public. That's how competitions work. Look at the Olympics, look at high-school sports, and what do you see? Clear, transparent rules for how the winner is picked. No mystery.


Does Zuda want to be a respected competition? Or does it want to be "Professional" Wrestling?


And one more time, let me say that I hope Zuda succeeds, and I don't suspect the people running Zuda of planning anything sketchy. I just happen to believe that transparency is a critical factor in the growth of online communities, and I don't see how a secret point system helps that.

Itchy, it's nice to believe that this competition can be held to pure ideals. I assume that you're worried about the algorithm so that you can self check to see that the staff isn't 'cheating' to help a comic?
I assume this because the only other credible reason for your interest would be a desire on your part to cheat the system, and I know you're not trying to cheat the system right?

It has been my experience with Zuda that you should not take their statements at face value but look for alternate meanings. The Zuda rules say:
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“The winning Submission in each Competition will be the Submission that has the most points at the end of the Competition under a points system which incorporates a certain number of points for each vote and additional points for other user activity as functionality becomes available.”
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The statement does not say that the ONLY source of points will be user activity; just that user activity will be a source of point. So the editors could have a number of discretionary points that could be thrown in to sway the competition one way or the other.
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As for transparency and communication, they seem not to be the Zuda way of doing things. Remember pertinent information about the contract, website, first competitors, the submission guidelines, the...(well we have limited time here so just add an etc.) were all revealed by other sources not Zuda.
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Now Zuda has been fair in their actions. I have no examples with them trying to cheat someone and the contract is a good deal. So I doubt they would muck with the competition for petty reason. But I do think think they are running this website in a very cooperate manner and cooperation do not give up power that easily.

And in line with JoshAlves, my personal hero, William Hung! Man that guy rawwwwwks! *throws up devil fingers* J/K ;)

Guys, do you think the next American President will be the guy with the most votes - that's how we do 'voting' in the UK. What's up with you people, you get bored with democracy or something? Just joking, no really!

Publishing the algorithm would be a mistake.
If it hasn't already started there's going to be entrants (and fans of entrants) who attempt to game the system.
Publishing the algorithm would just make it easier to search out the best loopholes.

So what's the ranking algorithm?

It's all well and good to say that there are lots of factors that go into the ranking. It's clever to suggest that we can "vote" in more ways than just voting. Putting a ranking value on views, favorites, comments, and other activities certainly encourages more active use of the site.


Using a secret algorithm for combining all of these factors, is a big turn off for me.


Without making the algorithm public, there's no way for us to know which kind of voting matters most, or matters at all. Without making the algorithm public, there's no way for us to know that you aren't fudging the numbers.


I don't think you are, because I wouldn't like to think that. But I have no way of knowing. Given Zuda's stated goals of transparency, and the bad publicity about the preselected content surprise, the idea of a mysterious ranking algorithm is very frustrating.

I was torn between The Dead Seas and High Moon. I don't really like western books. The grittiness of the pencils with the vibrant colors won me over. I also love Werewolf stories, so i am intrigued. I would still read the Dead Seas, because i love pirate stories as well...
wish i could vote for 2. :p

"I'd like to know if the rating system carries any weight with the judges, and equally, if the number of times you get added to someones favourites list gives you get extra added Zuda Power!"

Hmmmm ... I thought this was a vote. And the one that wins the vote wins the contest. All the other stuff is nice and all, but shouldn't the vote determine the winner?

Besides, it's getting to be time for us to see new contestants. Like, you know, the rest of you people who are posting! I want to see your entries, and vote on them and see the site grow. The first 10 are nice and all, but let's get this thing rolling. An avalance of new web comics and ideas and all kinds of fun stuff to look at and vote on.

As far as High Moon vs Dead in the Now vs Battlefield Babysitter goes...

High Moon really grabbed me on the first read, instantly engaging and I wanted to know RIGHT AWAY! what happened next - so I figured that as a good thing.

Dead in the Now didn't really grab my interest but I don't think I'm the target - it seems to have a following though, so I respect that. I just haven't had any interest in going back to read the strip a second time to see if it grabs me differently.

Battlefield Babysitter, I didn't like it that much on the first read, I guess I was expecting something else (like - a babysitting scenario), but it did have a few high points (personal interactions between the characters were gold!). However, on a second reading, I found it more engaging, I appreciate that there's a completed "mini-story" presented in the first 8 pages, and sets up well, so I actually adjusted my ranking higher on it accordingly.

I'll probably try to read through everything at least one more time before the voting ends, just to see how they hold up to repeated readings.

These are good questions, and I know we've discussed them here and there but let me clarify.

Votes - are entirely invisible. We don't display the number of votes that any series gets or which users voted for which series. Only you can see who you cast your vote for.

The other ways we have to evaluate a comic - the conversations you have in the comments section, the rating, which comics you declare as your favorites and even just how often you view or read a comic - all count to some degree toward determining the Rank.

So, when we display the Rank, you're seeing all of these things together to show who is in first place, second place, third, and so on and so forth in the overall competition and not just the vote result or just the favorite result or some other single indicator. A particular comic may have been read more than an other, but may have a lower average rating. Or a comic may be higher rated, but for some reason people just aren't voting for it. There are lots of possible variables. We're looking at all of the ways people interact with the comic in order to determine the Rank

Make sense?

I think, like alot of people out there, you (we all perhaps) have been confusing the average rating score and number of users who have added a particular comic to their favourites list, with the actual votes, which until now have been invisible to all but Zud(ites). I'd like to know if the rating system carries any weight with the judges, and equally, if the number of times you get added to someones favourites list gives you get extra added Zuda Power! Or are these just for effect? Views can't make much difference I would have thought, but correct me if I'm wrong!